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By Mark from Tyngsboro, MA
By
06/21/2011
Jess,
I am largely a firm believer in "do what works for you"! That being said I also like to know, as far as is possible, what could be the consequence(s) could be should I follow a certain course of action. To that end, on 27, June 2010, I forwarded the following message to Church and Dwight, the owners of the manufacturer's of OxiClean and the owners of the Arm And Hammer brand, concerning OxiClean: -
Your website states that the PH for this product is up to 11.0 when it is diluted. Is this correct?
I understand that the principal ingredients are:
Sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate, is this correct?
I further understand that when mixed with water the sodium percarbonate breaks down into hydrogen peroxide (for the cleaning) and sodium carbonate, is this correct?
MSDS's for both these chemicals rate their pH at well above 8.0
It is a well-known and well-established fact that aluminium is corroded when immersed in an aqueous solution with a pH above about 8.0. As the MSDS's for the subject chemicals available 'on the web' almost all make reference to the corrosive capabilities against aluminum, some do just say 'metals'.
I would be interested in your comments on the performance, in this regard; of your product on the aluminum spiders found in front loading washing machines. There are numerous reported incidents of spider corrosion and failure on the internet and/or although most of these seem to claim it is galvanic corrosion I do not agree. For it to be galvanic corrosion one would expect the majority of the corrosion to be at the junction of the dissimilar metals and on none of the photographs, or from the written descriptions, am I able to find one instance of this.
Thank you in anticipation.
Regards
Xxxxxxx
To date I have received no response except, coupons and offers for Arm And Hammer products in my email.
The MSDS for OxiClean can be found at: -
http://www.autolaundrysystems.com/MSDS/vendpdf/Oxi%20Clean.pdf
(Note the pH value). Orange Glo is totally owned by Church and Dwight.
Some Arm and Hammer MSDSs can be seen through: -
http://www.ahprofessional.com/MSDS/
By
06/21/2011
I have a Maytag Neptune front loader, from Costco. It works well, when it isn't broken, we have had some repair trouble.
I did have problems with the sour clothing and musty smells when we first got it. We discontinued fabric softener first, then switched over to dry HE detergent. I like the Arm and Hammer brand but any powder instead of liquid seems to do the trick.
Good luck!
By
06/21/2011
In my opinion there is no panacea to the problem of foul odours from front load washers.
I have seen posts where it was stated to have been traced to the discharge pipe pushed to far down the drain pipe allowing water to siphon back into the machine. Most machines I know of have a non-return valve to prevent this, and prevent any water in the pipe draining back into the machine. These, even if fitted, may have been defective.
I have seen posts where the smell has been stated to be traced to small items of clothing, baby clothes, sock(s), ladies flimsies etc. that have got stuck "somewhere in the works" and are cheerfully rotting away. Use of excess detergent and/or fabric softener very often coupled with use of other than hot water. This allows build-ups of these laundry aids, and scum to form and then start turning foul. Hot water alone will sometimes get rid of these build-ups. Sometimes the assistance cleaners such as "Affresh" will help, sometimes not.
In my opinion there are two, normally overlooked, sources of these fouls odours: -
1. The recesses in the hubs of the spiders (see my post below) fitted to many of these machines will retain water even after the fastest spin. This water will contain, inter alia, unused laundry aids (detergent, bleach, fabric softener etc), soil, the products of the interactions between the laundry aids and the soil, the products of the interactions between the laundry aids and the chemicals in the tap water, and unused chemicals in the tap water. When left over time the water will turn foul smelling.
2. The products of corrosion on the spiders retain small quantities of water after the final spin giving the same result as above.
Many posts on many sites claim that the corrosion of the spiders is due to galvanic action. I do not agree, I believe it is primarily chemical corrosion.
Should the corrosion have been galvanic between the stainless steel drum and the aluminum alloy spider the majority of the corrosion would have been at the junction of the two metals i.e. at the ends of the arms. I have seen no photographs of spiders corroded in such a manner, nor read of any similar descriptions.
Aluminum, and its alloys are corroded when immersed in an aqueous solution with a pH value above about 8.0 or below about 4.0 (nitric acid is a well known exception). All detergents have to be above about 8.0 or they would not work. The Material Safety Data Sheets put out by Proctor and Gamble state that the pH for one of the liquid Tides is 8.0 and for one of the Tide powdered detergents as 11.0. Bleach, (sodium hypochlorite) is also very corrosive to aluminum. I should add that for corrosion of the spider to take place these levels are considerably above the levels found in a washing machine during the wash/rinse phases of the cycle.
Sodium carbonate (washing soda) and sodium percarbonate found in some laundry aids (Affresh and Oxi-Clean (powder)) are also corrosive to aluminum, as is borax, provided the required concentrations are reached.
I believe the mechanics of the corrosion are as follows.
Even after the fastest spin small quantities of water will remain on the shaft and towards the centre of the spider. Any recesses in the spider close to the centre will aggravate this situation. This water will contain contaminants as detailed above. Should sufficient of these contaminants be present the pH of the mixture can, as evaporation takes place, rise to a level where corrosion will take place.
Corroded spiders can be seen at:
http://fixitnow.com/wp/2009/10/28/f ... gion-a-menagerie-of-metallic-misery/
http://softsolder.wordpress.com/201 ... ars-kenmore-he3-washer-drum-the-rot/
and for a LG spider
http://www.viewpoints.com/LG-TROMM-Front-Load-Washers-review-33dc10
For information on galvanic corrosion there is a very good paper at: -
http://www.unene.ca/un1001/UN1001_Galvanic%20Corrosion.ppt
For information on chemical corrosion of aluminum (or micro galvanic corrosion as the author calls it, I grew up calling it pitting corrosion) there is an informative paper at: -http://www.sintef.no/static/mt/norl ... 2003/Postere/Gaute%20Svenningsen.pdf
The picture below shows a spider removed from a Frigidaire built machine after 18 months service. Note the start of the build up of crud and the white spots, which are the products of corrosion. Liquid Tide was the only laundry aid used in this machine. The spider was removed because of bearing and seal failure: some of the crud is debris from this failure but it does demonstrate how contaminants are not easily removed from this area.
By
05/01/2011
I hate my LG front loader. My laundry smells like mildew all the time. I never had this problem until I bought my LG. Not sure what to do, but what a rip off! Wish I could return mine. I did return the first one after one week. Sears replaced it right away, but this replacement stinks (literally) too. Is there a class action lawsuit going on? I'm tired of dealing with this machine.
By
03/27/2011
Thank you everyone for the help!
We purchased our home in October and almost immediately noticed the awful musty smell. I was horrified since with my husband's gym routine we do almost daily laundry.
After checking all the posts, we from switched from liquid to the Costco brand Kirkland Ultra Laundry Detergent HE (High Effeciency). It took some time but within 2 months it was much much better. We cleaned out everything, rinsed with vinegar, bleach, hot cycle; everything was tried.
However, about a month ago, we came upon a product recommended for odors called Odoban (available at Sam's Club) which we add to the final rinse cycle (in the softener spot). I was impressed! The smell problem seems to have been kicked to the curb.
With fingers crossed, I'd say we have totally eliminated the problem. It took some time of using the powder (and less than the usual amount on the measuring cup) for the problem to subside.
When we also took out the filter in October the bottom box to the left of the Frigidaire model, it was GROSS then. I took it off to clean it out again today and there was barely any grunge on it. Success! :)
By
02/20/2011
Replace the big gasket in front. All the bleach and cleaner in world won't fix. There's a class action lawsuit against LG in progress. Replacing gasket costs about 200 unless you do it yourself.
By
02/05/2011
Clean the filter! We tried everything! The only strategy that worked temporarily was adding a little Borax to every load. Then, finally, the machine stopped draining. We read online how to unscrew the front panel and clean out the filter. This not only is going to save the drainage pump, but it got rid of the smell. The interior filter (that is not easy to get to, but a do-it-yourself possible project), was clogged with sewage smelling water and lint. This may not be what's causing the terrible smells in your machine, but it fixed ours! I'm still going to add Borax to every couple of loads of laundry. Hope this helps anyone. The smell was so awful and now it's gone! We're going to clean the filter every few months, hopefully extending the life of the machine as well as keeping the terrible smell far, far away!
By
12/02/2010
When nothing else has worked look to build up of smelly crud in the recesses of the spider. See the picture below.
Spider removed from 4.5 year old Frigidaire built Kenmore.
By
11/05/2010
Found it! After remembering that I used Borax to kill mold under tile pulled up in the basement, I tried it. I started putting about a small spoonful of Borax in the basin for laundry soap with my regular soap. Just break up any clumps with the back of the spoon. Then, knowing that vinegar is a natural fabric softener and killer of static electricity, I started pouring it in the basin where my fabric softener goes. Using these two in conjunction with each other had my washer smelling better within a week. I've been doing it for two months now and now return of the mold smell and my clothes are still soft and static-free. Yes, I still wipe out extra water and leave the door ajar, as well. Bonus: Lots cheaper and better for the environment!
By
11/03/2010
The musty smell is coming from the boot inside the door of the washer. If the boot is not wiped out and dried after each load, mildew builds up. Dishwashing liquid helps somewhat. To replace a boot costs about $100.00 per our Magtag repair man. There was a lawsuit regarding this mildew problem, but the lawsuit has already been settled. You can google lawsuit on magtag frontloaders and it should come up.
By
09/22/2010
I have had two different front loading machines over the past 7 yrs. I just got the LG a couple months ago. I do believe it uses way less water than my previous machine. Shortly after getting it, I got the musty smell and the only thing I had ever changed was that my sister left a bottle of downy softener at my house when she visited for a week (I had heard it was bad for front loaders and never used it), but it smelled so good so I used the rest of the bottle and little by little the problem got worse. I have been dealing with musty towels and tshirts since even though the fabric softener is long gone the problem stayed. The fix: I poured an entire bottle of hydrogen peroxide in the different compartments. I changed to the powdered HE soap and after two washes the smell is gone, just like that..so easy. So I believe the problem is the liquid products mostly fabric softener and the solution is changing to powder, using less, & I always use pre-wash now for more water in general to be getting into the clothing. hopes this helps anyone with smelly towels! Also whenever I do buy any towels now, i make sure they are white so I can bleach them, if needed.
By
07/31/2010
I have a Kenmore Elite HE 4T and just went through this too. My husband took off the bottom of the washer to expose the drain. The black drain hose that comes down from the tub leads into an approx. 4" white "lint" trap that connects to the pump and the gray drain hose. He took off the white trap and it was awful. There was debris and stagnet water-the smell was awful. Needless to say, we removed it and cleaned it and put it back in. Ran 2 cycles of white vinegar and bleach and checked the trap again-it ran clean. I guess what they neglect to tell you is to clean that trap periodically. That solved the problem.
By
07/28/2010
Again I say switch to powdered HE Detergent and do not use liquid fabric softener. These are made with petroleum products and also contain animal fats. Use only a tablespoon of powder and put it right in the drawer where you were putting your liquid. You may have to search stores for powdered HE detergent, but it will last a long, long time. Worked for me.
By
07/26/2010
This problem can be prevented by using just a tablespoon of HP detergent. Also, about once a month I clean out the bottom section and do the machine cleansing. Very important is drying out the rubber section after the cycle is finished. I also leave the door opened.
By
07/24/2010
We had that happen to us as well. We were told to take bleach and water and clean the seal (rubber part just inside the door inside and outside), then do a regular wash cycle (minus the clothes) and add bleach. Also, do not close the door all the way when you are not using the washing machine. We keep it open about an inch. This has helped us.
Good luck
By
07/24/2010
Can you leave the door cracked when the washer is not in use? It might help the moisture buildup to evaporate You might also try placing one of those moisture capturing buckets in the machine when it's not in use (warn family members to remove and put it back before and after use).
My 2008 LD front loading washer and the cloths washed in the machine smell very bad, like mold. We also have several pets and I am unable to get to where the dog and cat hair lodge in the washer.
I paid a lot of money for what I thought would be my last purchase of a new washer and dryer as most of my previous appliances over the last 40 years have served me well. I also have a Master Protection Plan that we purchased at the same time as the purchase of the washer and dryer.
I had nothing but trouble with a washer that didn't work most of the time until Sears finally declared the washer unfixable and let me pick out another replacement washer. This one smells terrible. Even with the Master Protection Plan I could not get anyone out to assist me and was told to periodically throw in a cup of bleach and run a cycle. That didn't work.
After spending a thousand bucks on a washer that I hate and being a good constant customer for more than 40 years, I was finally able to get a tech out to look at smell my washer. He said this was a problem with all the front loaders. He then laid a bath towel across the front of the washer to keep the door slightly open. That was his solution! How and where do I go to find some resolution regarding this matter?
Joan
By suzi_homemaker01
09/27/2011
I clean houses and almost all of my clients have a front loading washing machine as well as my brother. My brother and his gf never dried their washer or the gasket or left the door open so the whole entire washer smells like mold and all the clothes get washed and come out smelling moldy even after being dried. They don't care but that's another story:) Not one of my clients (14) are happy with their front loaders.
After each load, you need a towel handy to dry the inside and completely dry the rubber gasket rim thing where the door seals as well as the door. Then the door has to be left open to avoid mold issues and the moldy smell. Then you have to have a place to hang your towel so that you can use it again unless you want to use a clean one every time and then there's a whole load of towels for you to wash:)
This is what you need to do. Wash the inside with soap and water. Pull the seal out and clean all the mold and dog hair out of there. You may have to use a little clorox cleanup on the mold. Clean the door and leave it open from now on unless it is in use. Wait a couple hours and come back and smell it. If you still have an odor you can buy the washing machine cleaner packet. It works great. Always always always dry the inside when you are finished and leave the door open.
Not everyone has a huge laundry room and in most cases this is a royal pain, but it is the only way. Not one of my customers likes their front loaders. I don't care how much water it saves. I would never purchase something that requires so much upkeep. Good luck!
How do I get rid of the moldy/musty smell in my front load washer? It smells like wet towels that have been sitting in the damp basement of an abandoned house! Please help.
By Hunter
By syntoniser
09/13/2011
I had the musty smell whether I closed the door or left it open. I was about to throw the machine away even though it was only two years old. A repairman told me to stop using liquid detergent, use only powdered, and no liquid fabric softener. The liquids are petroleum based and leave a residue on plastic pipes and rubber gaskets etc.
Powdered HE detergent is hard to find, but worth the effort. Also, he said not to use as much as recommended, he said most people use way too much soap. There is absolutely no smell in my machine now, and amazingly the clothes are just as clean. For two people washing a small load of clothes I use only a rounded tablespoon of HE powdered detergent. Try it... the only thing you have to lose is a moldy smell.
I have a problem with my washing machine, it has a musty/mildew smell inside the machine itself.
I have a front loading washer (which I LOVE!) but I have developed a problem.
My washer is about 8 years old. Recently it has started to smell AFTER I wash a load of clothes.
There is a mildew smell inside my washing machine. I've tried leaving it open to let it air out and I've run it without any clothes thru a wash cycle with a cup of bleach.
My washing machine stinks like rotten eggs almost every time I do a wash. I've put bleach through the wash and it helped for a short time.
My washing machine stinks like molding cloth. Is it possible for small articles of clothing to wash up over the drum and sit in between the casing and the drum?
With my first front load washer, I continually had problems with the spin cycle not spinning the clothes properly.
Does anyone know how to get the musty smell out of a front loading washing machine? I have tried cleaning the rubber seals, bleach, vinegar etc., and nothing is working.
How can I remove mouldy smell from my front loading washing machine, please?
There is a drain hose next to the filter (little trap door). Drain this line and clean the filter.
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